The Yorkshire County Cricket Club

Firstly I don't have a problem with leaving out a bowler because I think playing 4 seamers is excessive, and anyway I couldn't pick 4 seamers from our squad who are worth their place in the side (I'd like to be able to consider Ashraf but since he hasn't been given any first team opportunities and as he didn't do anything in the seconds last week [0-37 off 9 overs] that would be difficult). Personally I'd choose Jaques over Sayers as well as Mags and Lyth (who I don't think has much chance of playing) simply because I think he's a better player; I know he hasn't played much recently and that concerns me but I think we'd really be shooting ourselves in the foot if the player we've chosen as our overseas batsman (for 2 years!) got here and we didn't even pick him, despite the fact our batting has overall failed in the 2 games we've played so far...

Becoming a hobby horse of mine this...

Just wondered on what basis Triple Centurian calculates that Mags is 'out of form'

I'd actually argue he is the form player in the side at the moment. He scored consistently well in Barbados, top scored with 94 in the last preseason match against a quality Durham attack and, other than getting a first baller against Kent, has at least matched everyone else for scores and quality of strokes since. Anyone can get a good ball first up!

He also adds an economical bowling option which can bring wickets.

Mags suffered last year with knee injuries, then sciatica and then tried to help the team by playing through pain only to be vilified for it not working out.

Watching all of his 2012 innings after a healthy winter has led me to think that we've got the old Mags back whereas a lot of you guys can only remember last summer.

The old Mags is a good as most batsmen on the county circuit.

Can we support our players instead of taking undue pleasure in criticising them? Not always with justification.

James

James - it's all about opinion and on the Mags issue I agree with you. I think some on this forum have been harsh in their judgement of Mags and he'd make my current YCCC team.

If we're on the subject of 'hobby horses' I've a couple which come though in the websites reporting i) the praising of Pyrah, IMO he'll never be a strong enough bowler to be 3rd seamer in a first class team and his batting is too inconsistent to be an allrounder. ii) Lyth is a better player than Sayers whose limited contribution goes unchallenged.

The game is however all about opinion! We each see things differently however I agree comments should stand up to examination.

If McGrath was injured (and playing through the pain), why was he being selected? Supporters repeatedly predicted his lbw dismissals. If they could see his footwork was not up to the job (for whatever reason), why did the management persist in playing him ahead of other options?

The 19th is Gillespie's birthday and he does like to score centuries on his birthday so maybe he should name himself as a top six batsman for this weeks upcoming game?

In 2011: He played 12 FC games (23 innings in total), 1 x century, 1 x half-century. Runs: 485. Average: 21.08.

He was given plenty of games to prove himself, while Wainwright for example, got three games and Rafiq, none.

done some research into Mags stats to see if my gut feel and views are supported or disproved.

By all accounts, some people seem keen to give him a 'get out of jail free' card for 2011 as he played on through injury for the benefit of the team. Similarly, he is now deemed to be in "form" by virtue of some runs with the sun on his back in Barbados, a 94 in a warm up match v Durham and some sumptious drives for 4 against the Unis. When he is out first ball, this can happen to anyone of course....

Last season he had an absolute stinker and together with the first CC match of this season, Mags has been out lbw 12 times out of 27 innings dismissed.

He has been out for single figures on 13 occasions (5 ducks) and made on 50 and one century (on a belter in Hampshire when 2 of the opponents scored a double hundred and triple hundred).

But if we allow for injury in 2011 how has his batting looked over the last few seasons?

Going back to 2005 when he "peaked" with his batting average/runs scored his stats are as follows.

Year Innings Runs Average 100s 50s
2005 28 1425 59 5 5
2006 24 1293 62 4 9
2007 22 931 46 3 6
2008 21 728 35 2 3
2009 27 871 33 4 2
2010 29 1219 43 3 9
2011 23 485 21 1 1

What I am trying to show is that his strong season in 2010 that we all remember was actually his first good season for 3 or 4 years and prior to 2010 he had been on a steady decline. This split the time when he was upset under the old regime and happy to stay after Gough's return as skipper.

We all remember the 2010 Mags and also the 2010 Lyth. Both then had stinkers in 2011 but Mags was given the "get out" in some peoples eyes that he was injured and doing us a favour.

He is a number 3 bat and I expect his target to be 1000 runs and an average of 50 in the CC. He has achieved this only once in the last 5 years.

Why do we think he deserves a place due to his experience? How many experienced players do we want/need in the side? Gale, Sayers are in their later 20s, Siddy and Jaques in their 30s. If Bairstow is with England and Bresnan too, then their likely replacements are Patterson and Brophy who also fit into this category.

Now if your argument is that Mags needs to be in the team as he is our best change seamer, fair enough. On current form and showings of others, I agree with you. However, this does not mean he should still be batting at 3 in the order. When Rashid lost form with the bat, he was dropped down the order on several occasions - he used to be an all rounder at 6 and now he bats at 8.

But, if we expect Mags to bowl as a change seamer for 15 overs a day, he won't last the first half of the season.

I really cannot see how some people can defend his place in the team as a batsman and say he is in "form". All I need now is the "form is temporary, class is permanent" quote to be made to really challenge how a bloke with a career average of 36 (for a number 3 most of his life) can ever be classed as a class batsman.

Chris Waters adds his two pennorth on Mags selection

http://m.yorkshirepost.c...till-produce-1-4453303#

On the positive side (and we do like to take whatever positives we can) Mags is motivated by criticism so when he hits a double ton v Essex I shall claim credit

Agree, it`s a team game. It is very rare that 1 player wins or loses a match for a team. We need the best available eleven on the pitch and for ALL of them to perform well if we want to win.

We have 7 batsmen warranting a place and we have 3 bowlers warranting a place, so it`s logical to pick a team with seven batsmen in and only 4 bowlers. If we have not got 5 bowlers who can either keep it tight or get wickets, we may as well play to our strength,which is our batting.

However, the crap weather forecast, strengthens the counter argument, that in a rain reduced match you need as many bowlers as possible to force a result. In this case, do we just ignore the forecast and hope the weather forecasters have got it wrong.

When teams pick seven batsmen the bloke picked at no. 7 often does less well than people used to batting there. If the tail is weak he has to look after it, but if the tail is strong why pick seven batsmen ?